The first part would not have bothered me at all. Sometimes it is just an automatic thing to say.
It is weird that he touched her butt. But I would let her say something. She is worried about her son snd making a scene won’t help anyone. You could write a complaint to the ambulance corp.
I think this is a huge part of the problem. Idk if ambulance guy was wielding his 'power' in that moment, but in my experience SO MANY have and do. And I at least have been so programmed to submit in response.
Yes, I felt confused and powerless in the moment. Here is my aunt, a sweet woman whose son just got hurt, and as she is entering the ambulance someone touches her from behind. Literally adding insult to injury. And here your son is under the care of this guy, you are totally reliant on his help. It was an hour drive to the hospital.
Yes, I agree with you that it's an automatic thing to say. But I'm not sure if he was saying it automatically or strategically-- i.e., saying it so that she might pause and then he'd touch her. And I don't know if this thinking would be conscious or just automatic. That, in some men's minds, there is just a general calculation ongoing that orients them towards touching women without their consent. Because they can, because they want to.
And I felt especially strange with the way he touched her butt. With the two fingers. Like I can imagine if you are wanting to help someone into a vehicle, you might use your palm on their back, by the ribcage. But to reach out and touch her butt in that way, it's just confusing.
And totally unnecessary. I can't see in what situation it would be called for. It is not accidental. And thus seems intentionally disrespectful, and at best careless. But what degree of carelessness are we in to 'accidentally' / thoughtlessly touch someone's ass?
And if we lived in a different world where we didn't have a rape culture, didn't have P. Diddy get off with the lightest sentence, a message that women's pain and boundaries do no matter, I might not think anything of this passing touch. But here we are.
I swear we've all been deeply programmed to fear the power of others. I would think little of the head part (maybe just him having SOMETHING to say, but could also be a twinge of him establishing 'his place'?), but WOULD be thinking about the bum part.
The problem is the mindset behind it, which reporting doesn't fix.
I have a friend who is confident enough to say something like "Dude, really?" and look at the man with incredulity. That usually stops them and they might look embarrassed. Or not - some men don't care. But it doesn't address the core problems. We are programmed to not make waves or make others uncomfortable. These guys know they can get away with it because most women won't call them out. These men are entitled and will abuse their power. I am not confident or quick-witted enough to say something in the moment. Usually I am shocked and don't react. I'd love to hear suggestions on how to recognize it and address it in the moment.
Yes, we were all focused on my cousin's status, with his bloodied face, worried he'd suffered some brain damage. The adrenaline hones your focus.
I also feel there is a subtlety there that conceals the offense. Like, it was in the context of him "trying to help" her into the vehicle. Ostensibly. And it wasn't like a full palm slap or grab or squeeze. Just two fingertips touching her butt cheek as she got into the ambulance. So it is not overtly sexual.
But why, why would you touch someone there anyway?
I'm also hesitant to report him because what if I need to call an ambulance in the future?
I don't think I've found my voice yet but agree. And think it is so helpful for us to stick up for one another when possible.
A few years back, any icky feelings I got from that experience I would've assumed it was 'me.'
Today I may finally be able to see/identify when things aren't ok, or aren't necessary (or worse), but I'm still probably not in the place I can speak up. EXCEPT I do think I can at least get some practice in when it comes to others being harmed. And hopefully have a moment to calmly evaluate whether now is the time/place, or later. I AM finding that with some of these 'types,' standing my ground does actually get them to behave appropriately. There's a whole other level of 'types' that I'm not yet a match for, but even with them, my standing ground may at least catch them off guard for a moment... And ANY time we can buy with them is a bonus imo!
Generally speaking, the more grounded and peaceful I become, the better I can respond to anything thrown at me or any of these situations. I think a huge part of it (for me) is that peace allows me to gain a lil confidence in what I say/feel being ok (not crazy, etc), which also naturally brings out the desire for truth to be in the moment, even if I'm the only one bringing it lol.
Interested to hear how y'all would perceive and respond to this moment. And if you have parallel experiences. Thanks for being here.
The first part would not have bothered me at all. Sometimes it is just an automatic thing to say.
It is weird that he touched her butt. But I would let her say something. She is worried about her son snd making a scene won’t help anyone. You could write a complaint to the ambulance corp.
I think this is a huge part of the problem. Idk if ambulance guy was wielding his 'power' in that moment, but in my experience SO MANY have and do. And I at least have been so programmed to submit in response.
Yes, I felt confused and powerless in the moment. Here is my aunt, a sweet woman whose son just got hurt, and as she is entering the ambulance someone touches her from behind. Literally adding insult to injury. And here your son is under the care of this guy, you are totally reliant on his help. It was an hour drive to the hospital.
Yes, I agree with you that it's an automatic thing to say. But I'm not sure if he was saying it automatically or strategically-- i.e., saying it so that she might pause and then he'd touch her. And I don't know if this thinking would be conscious or just automatic. That, in some men's minds, there is just a general calculation ongoing that orients them towards touching women without their consent. Because they can, because they want to.
And I felt especially strange with the way he touched her butt. With the two fingers. Like I can imagine if you are wanting to help someone into a vehicle, you might use your palm on their back, by the ribcage. But to reach out and touch her butt in that way, it's just confusing.
And totally unnecessary. I can't see in what situation it would be called for. It is not accidental. And thus seems intentionally disrespectful, and at best careless. But what degree of carelessness are we in to 'accidentally' / thoughtlessly touch someone's ass?
And if we lived in a different world where we didn't have a rape culture, didn't have P. Diddy get off with the lightest sentence, a message that women's pain and boundaries do no matter, I might not think anything of this passing touch. But here we are.
I swear we've all been deeply programmed to fear the power of others. I would think little of the head part (maybe just him having SOMETHING to say, but could also be a twinge of him establishing 'his place'?), but WOULD be thinking about the bum part.
The problem is the mindset behind it, which reporting doesn't fix.
I have a friend who is confident enough to say something like "Dude, really?" and look at the man with incredulity. That usually stops them and they might look embarrassed. Or not - some men don't care. But it doesn't address the core problems. We are programmed to not make waves or make others uncomfortable. These guys know they can get away with it because most women won't call them out. These men are entitled and will abuse their power. I am not confident or quick-witted enough to say something in the moment. Usually I am shocked and don't react. I'd love to hear suggestions on how to recognize it and address it in the moment.
Yes, we were all focused on my cousin's status, with his bloodied face, worried he'd suffered some brain damage. The adrenaline hones your focus.
I also feel there is a subtlety there that conceals the offense. Like, it was in the context of him "trying to help" her into the vehicle. Ostensibly. And it wasn't like a full palm slap or grab or squeeze. Just two fingertips touching her butt cheek as she got into the ambulance. So it is not overtly sexual.
But why, why would you touch someone there anyway?
I'm also hesitant to report him because what if I need to call an ambulance in the future?
I don't think I've found my voice yet but agree. And think it is so helpful for us to stick up for one another when possible.
A few years back, any icky feelings I got from that experience I would've assumed it was 'me.'
Today I may finally be able to see/identify when things aren't ok, or aren't necessary (or worse), but I'm still probably not in the place I can speak up. EXCEPT I do think I can at least get some practice in when it comes to others being harmed. And hopefully have a moment to calmly evaluate whether now is the time/place, or later. I AM finding that with some of these 'types,' standing my ground does actually get them to behave appropriately. There's a whole other level of 'types' that I'm not yet a match for, but even with them, my standing ground may at least catch them off guard for a moment... And ANY time we can buy with them is a bonus imo!
Generally speaking, the more grounded and peaceful I become, the better I can respond to anything thrown at me or any of these situations. I think a huge part of it (for me) is that peace allows me to gain a lil confidence in what I say/feel being ok (not crazy, etc), which also naturally brings out the desire for truth to be in the moment, even if I'm the only one bringing it lol.